Based in Kirksville, Missouri, Dr. Esparham is one of the best young physicians in the country, part of a new generation of professionals expanding the reach of functional/integrative medicine. She is board-certified in pediatrics, integrative medicine, medical acupuncture, and osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine. She teaches medical students, supervises resident physicians, publishes research in peer-reviewed journals, and treats patients with chronic health issues. Her website is DoctorAnnaMD.com. 

Among the topics discussed here: pain therapies, exercise tips, sleep, nutritional supplements, reading suggestions, and her journey from poor health to vitality.

(Disclaimer: Dr. Anna, as she’s known to her patients, is a medical doctor but she is not your doctor and is not offering medical advice in this interview. If you are in need of professional advice or care, please seek the services of your own doctor/health care professional.) 

Bob Frost (BF): Dr. Anna, can people heal? Deeply heal? 

Dr. Anna (Dr. A): Yes! 

BF: From chronic pain? Autoimmune conditions, digestive issues, headaches? Lack of energy, depression? Feeling stuck? Poor sleep? Waking up in the morning feeling tired? 

Dr. A: Absolutely. I’ve seen many successful healing journeys. 

BF: People of any age?

Dr. A: Yes. We all have tremendous healing power, more than we might think. Older people sometimes say, “I feel tired and achy because I’m aging,” and obviously age is a factor in health, but people of any age can improve their health. A practitioner trained in functional/integrative/holistic medicine can help a lot. 

BF: What is your definition of “functional/integrative/holistic medicine”?

Dr. A: Health care that focuses on the whole person and makes use of all appropriate therapeutic approaches and disciplines to help the patient achieve optimal health. This field was formerly known as alternative medicine. I think of it as just “medicine.” Good medicine. It’s evidence-based. Scientific evidence is the cornerstone of my work. I spend a lot of time on PubMed doing research. 

BF: What are some good markers for health?

Dr. A: Four good markers are digestive health, sleep quality, energy level, and overall emotional balance and resilience. If someone is lacking in any of those areas, that’s a red flag. 

BF: So where to start with a health journey? Let’s go over a few basics and then delve into details. 

Dr. A: Nutrition is a good place to start. I recommend to my patients that they try eating gluten-free or eating fewer foods that cause inflammation—less processed food, less sugar. I recommend using good quality supplements. Many supplements are not good quality. I like the Designs for Health brand. I also recommend the Xymogen brand. I also have used Thorne, Integrative Therapeutics, Microbiome Labs, Vital Nutrients, and, for their probiotics, Seed. I usually take supplements with a meal. 

I used to do intravenous infusions of C and B every two weeks when I was recovering from certain illnesses, about 25 grams of IV C and one milliliter of B complex. 

I cycle a multivitamin. I take a multivitamin daily with extra B for a few months every year. Or a B complex according to the same schedule. Usually methylated versions of B12 and folate with other B vitamins. 

I try to get most of my nutrients from diet. I usually follow up with labs. If I’m low on a specific micronutrient despite an adequate diet, I’ll supplement. Obtaining an accurate C level in a lab is tough because it degrades so quickly. 

I would love for us to get all our nutrition from our diet but it’s so hard to do that. Our food has been losing its nutritional value, apparently because of changes in agricultural methods and depletion of the soil. I believe we need more nutrients today than people in the past because of chronic conditions we’re suffering from, new chronic diseases, new levels of disease occurring from all these bombardments we’re seeing. The environment. Chemicals in the food, the air, the water. Stress levels.

So you need, first, a good foundation with food, and then high-quality supplements. Again, I emphasize “high quality.” There’s a 27-page guide online from the National Association of Nutrition Professionals, “Dietary Supplement Quality Reference Guide.” The link is https://nanp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/dietary-supp-quality-ref-guide-02a-1.pdf.

I also recommend to my patients that they get more healthy fats like coconut oil and grass-fed butter. I suggest they go slowly with adding fats.

A couple of online articles about diet worth reading are “The Bulletproof Diet for Beginners” at BulletProof.com and “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of Inflammation” by William Snyder.

BF: We will talk more about diet in this interview. What’s a good second step, after food improvements? 

Dr. A: Learning to let go of chronic stress. This improves sleep quality, which is very important. Exercise and meditation are helpful here. Exercise can be as simple as taking a nice walk. Meditation doesn’t need to be complicated—15 minutes twice a day is good, just sitting in a chair. Start with five minutes. Start with two minutes! Emily Fletcher has guided meditations on YouTube.

What we’re talking here about creating new habits. There’s a brilliant book titled Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything by B.J. Fogg (2020). You create tiny steps that are do-able—two minutes of meditation while you drink your morning coffee. And celebrate that immediately: “I have a meditation practice! Way to go!” There are coaches certified in the Tiny Habits Method; they can be found at TinyHabitsAcademy.com. They’ll do remote work. Another good book is Confident You: Simple Habits to Live the Life You Have Imagined by Julie DeLucca-Collins (2021). 

BF: What’s the next step after stress reduction, or at the same time? 

Dr. A: Hydration. Clean water moves junk out of cells and gets good stuff into cells. The water should be distilled, filtered, or bottled. Mountain Valley Spring Water is good. 

BF: How much water daily? 

Dr. A: This is tough to generalize as it can be individualized depending on someone’s environment, activity, health condition. There is a formula for water intake that is the bare minimum of water for an individual: drinking, in ounces, one-half of the person’s body weight in pounds. For example, if an individual weighs 100 pounds, 50 ounces of water is a daily estimate. 

BF: Water with a meal? Or separately?

Dr. A: Separately. Drinking water with meals dilutes good gastric juices. If you have a drink of water, wait half-an-hour before eating, and wait an hour after eating before drinking again.

BF: For someone who has been on their health journey for a while, what is an advanced step? 

Dr. A: Detoxification. A product called PectaSol is a good supplement for detoxing. It has a good safety profile with evidence demonstrating its benefits. Research shows the importance of going slowly with detox—it should be slow and boring. There’s a review of detox in the book Integrative and Functional Medical Nutrition Therapy: Principles and Practices.

BF: That book is a tremendous resource, written by a number of experts, published in 2020. Every public library should have a copy. I’ll list a few of the chapters: “Detoxification and Biotransformation,” “Nutritional and Metabolic Wellness,” “The Microbiome and Brain Health,” “The Role of Nutrition in Integrative Oncology,” “Circadian Rhythm: Life-Dark Cycles,” “Therapeutic Diets,” “Revolutionary New Concepts in the Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease,” etc. “Almost the entire population is deficient in at least one nutrient,” says one leading integrative practitioner quoted in the book. 

Dr. A: For example, I found out I have a zinc deficiency. I eat as healthfully as possible, I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients, all vitamins and minerals—well, it turns out I’m deficient in zinc. For some reason my body isn’t wanting to absorb it, or my gut integrity may have gone down from a stressful event. I’m addressing that with supplementation. If you’re nutritionally deficient in just one area, it can affect a lot. Zinc has tremendous importance. For example, it has an impact on thyroid function. 

BF: How did you find out you’re zinc deficient?

Dr. A: From a regular blood draw by my physician. 

BF: I’ll just mention, the field of health testing has improved dramatically over the last several decades. Testing companies are online: Vibrant-America.com, DirectLabs.com, LabCorp.com, QuestHealth.com, ClevelandClinic.org. 

Dr. A: Those are great resources.

BF: Please elaborate on the idea that stress can damage gut integrity. 

Dr. A: Stress contributes to an increase in gut barrier permeability known as leaky gut. It can feed gut dysbiosis, an imbalance of microorganisms, which can lead to chronic inflammation and various problems. In integrative medicine we believe the gut is the centerpoint for overall health. The digestive system and nutrition are foundational components for everything we do. The gut, if it’s troubled, if there’s inflammation, if there’s a decrease in integrity, if there’s an overwhelming amount of bad microbes that shouldn’t be in there, you can be hit with mood disorders, sleep problems, cardiovascular problems, thyroid disease, and so on.

BF: Bad food choices are a form of stress? 

Dr. A: Yes, for example, highly-processed foods. They can damage the gut’s microbial population and hurt the super-sensitive gut mucus. These are foods that are changed significantly from their natural state—packaged foods with lots of weird stuff added and good stuff taken out. Such foods are often “empty calories.” That phrase gets tossed around, but actually, the problem is deeper—they’re doing damage. 

BF: You avoid highly- and ultra-processed foods? 

Dr. A: Yes. I avoid candy, soft drinks, packaged and canned soups, hot dogs, french fries, chicken nuggets, white bread, and fast food. 

BF: I’ll insert here a quote about processed food from journalist Anahad O’Connor summarizing the 2021 book Hooked by Michael Moss: Food companies have “painstakingly engineered processed foods to hijack the reward circuitry in our brains, causing us to overeat and helping to fuel a global epidemic of obesity and chronic disease,” Moss writes. Processed foods, he suggests, such as snack chips and chocolate cookies, can be more addictive than alcohol and drugs. “I’ve been crawling through the underbelly of the processed food industry for 10 years,” Moss writes, “and I continue to be stunned by the depths of the deviousness of their strategy to…tap into our basic instincts.”

Dr. A: Perhaps the food industry is not on our side!

BF: What is your opinion of digestive enzymes? 

Dr. A: Very beneficial for many people, especially as they get older, and for people who have undiagnosed gastrointestinal issues, who always feel like they have indigestion or bloating, who have overgrowth of bad bacteria.

Betaine HCL is also great. Some people respond best to a combination of betaine plus enzymes, some just need one of them. 

BF: I want to put in a good word for a product called Probiotics Ultra from RenewalResearch.com. I’ve benefited from it. I’ve investigated that company and am convinced their products are top quality. What is your view of Vitamin D?

Dr. A: I take 5,000 units a day October through April and I rely on sunshine the rest of the year. There’s good data on the value of D from many researchers including Robert P. Heaney, MD. That guy was a genius. I just wish he were still here today. 

BF: What are three or four supplements that are less-well-known, off-the-beaten-track, but valuable?

Dr. A: For immune system health, I recommend quercetin, probiotics, and vitamin D. Sometimes I recommend medicinal mushrooms: AHCC extract, Turkey Tail, Reishi. 

Curcumin is great. It helps modulate the immune system, improves arthritis pain levels, is helpful for inflammatory bowel disease, helps with recovery from muscle damage, even helps with cancer. However, for some people it can cause gut issues, and it can interact with certain drugs, so not everyone can tolerate it. 

Elderberry, also known as sambucus, is good at the onset of flu or cold symptoms. I always take it if I get exposed. 

Magnesium is extremely important and most people don’t get enough of it. Half of Americans are magnesium deficient according to a 2020 study. Low magnesium has many effects including making vitamin D ineffective and negatively affecting bone health.

BF: What are some other habits you follow? 

Dr. A: I need to be there for my patients every hour of every working day so I pay close attention to energy. My most important tool is good quality sleep. When 8 p.m. hits, I am getting ready for bed. In order to get deep and restful sleep, with good sleep cycles, I spend time before lights-out calming down any stress, any anxiety, any tension. I might do yoga, talk to my husband, talk to a friend, meditate, pray, take a walk. Sometimes I’ll read a novel, something easy and enjoyable, while laying on my BioMat. The BioMat is a heating pad that contains tourmaline and amethyst and emits negative ions. It helps the body release stress. I love it, it calms me right down. 

Science is doing a lot of sleep studies these days. A very high percentage of people, including children and teens, have sleep issues, including poor quality sleep and not sleeping enough. Mind-body therapies can be helpful for these issues—tapping, mindful breathing, self-massage, emotional letting go and surrendering. A lot of people think “Kids and teens won’t do mind-body therapies” but they will! They love it! I have a podcast at DoctorAnnaMD.com titled “How Your Teen Can Get Better Sleep” with Melanie Gold, DO.

Some studies are showing that if you take a warm bath or hot shower one to two hours before bed, for at least ten minutes, you encourage body temperature dynamics that are helpful for better sleep. The bath brings blood and heat to the surface. You’re moving heat out of the core of your body toward the body surface. This is in tune with the natural cooling of the body’s core that takes place in the evening, so you’re promoting sleep. 

Epsom salt baths are great. I recommend four pounds of Epsom salt for between 20 and 30 minutes, enough time for the magnesium to be absorbed through the skin. 

I get outside every morning. I walk my dog. Fresh air is very cleansing for me.

I work out regularly. On alternate mornings I do barre, Pilates, yoga, or resistance training. On other mornings I do strength training or a combination of an HIIT work-out, high intensity interval training, with either elliptical work or rowing. 

BF: Lay a few more exercise tips on us. 

Dr. A: First of all, just a basic statement: exercise has so many positive effects. We all know this, but maybe a reminder is helpful. One example from the long list—exercise gets the lymphatic fluid flowing properly, a drainage system for the body, getting rid of junk, toxins. Try to do something every day. A lot of people feel like, “If I can’t get in an hour-long exercise it’s not worth my time.” Do ten minutes if that’s how your schedule shakes out.

Be cautious with exercise. You don’t need to kill yourself working out and feel all depleted—you should feel energized afterwards. No single exercise program fits all. Finding an exercise group is really helpful. Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization is a good tool for learning how to use the body safely and efficiently and avoid injury. Proper breathing is really important. Diaphragmatic breathing is a learnable skill. 

I have a podcast at the website with personal trainer Anna Woods titled “Transforming Lives Through Fitness.” Anna’s great. 

BF: Any other parts of your daily routine that you’d like to mention?

Dr. A: I take a product called bacopa monnieri, 200 milligrams at lunchtime on occasion. It’s an herb that’s been used for centuries in traditional medicine. A little bit helps with my energy level in the afternoon, my focus and my cognitive function. Bacopa monnieri works best for me if I take it for two months, then go off it for maybe six to nine months, then resume it for another cycle of two months on, six months off.

I also like to take an afternoon siesta. Sleep requirements vary widely among individuals. I need eight hours plus the siesta plus weekend naps depending on the level of energy I’ve spent during the week. Some people need a little more or a little less. The key is the quality of sleep in each cycle: deep, light, and REM/dream. A good resource is “The Matt Walker Podcast” online. For children and adolescent sleep issues, I have, online, podcasts and articles with “Healthy Children Podcast” and the “Pharmacy Podcast Network.” 

BF: During the months you’re not doing bacopa, what are you slotting in its place?

Dr. A: An activated B vitamin or a multivitamin with activated B. 

BF: Speaking of Epsom salts—here’s a quote from a physician writing online—“I’ve been surprised by just how many things Epsom salt seems to help (e.g., skin conditions and insomnia).” I will mention, however, that I know someone who got intestinal upset, diarrhea, from Epsom salt baths because of too much magnesium coming in through the skin. 

Dr. A: Ah, interesting. 

BF: Regarding vaccines. What resources do you recommend for guidance? 

Dr. A: I recommend watching Congressional hearings about vaccines or reading summaries on GovInfo.gov to get an understanding of both sides of the issue. A recent online document that may be of interest is “Hearings to Examine Science and Federal Health Agencies, Focusing on Myocarditis and Other Events Associated with the COVID-19 Vaccines.” There’s a book called Turtles All the Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth edited by Zoey O’Toole and Mary Holland (2022) that may break down vaccine science. Aaron Siri has published a book titled Vaccines, Amen (2025). WhiteHouse.gov published an Internet web page about COVID-19 that explains the processes that led to the pandemic. 

BF: Regarding diet. The famous advice of author Michael Pollan is “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.” On the other hand, the Weston A. Price Foundation says Pollan is flat wrong. The foundation’s review of his 2010 book Food Rules says “his prescription is nothing but confusion and contradiction” and recommends “plenty of superfoods like organ meats, animal fats, raw dairy foods, grass-fed butter, and seafood.” Pollan and the Price Foundation are well-informed and completely disagree about food—a common thing in the world of nutrition. What’s your basic view of diet, of food intake? 

Dr. A: I think different people need different diets. Not every diet is meant for everyone. Genetics are different, gut biomes are different, digestion is different.

BF: I’ll insert a quote here from the Greek philosopher Celsus: “The most important thing of all” is for people to “be familiar with the nature of their own body.”

Dr. A: I have tried many diets. Whenever I prescribed an eating plan for a patient, I would try it for myself. I got ill from being on a vegan diet, a vegetarian diet—very fatigued, very pale, very sick and anemic. I moved toward meat and did better.

I now eat meat because it works for me in terms of feeling better and having energy. Researchers are finding—this is very preliminary—the positive effects of a carnivore diet might have something to do with auto-immunity. Some people with auto-immune issues, who go toward a carnivore diet, really clear up their system to where they don’t have to take medications anymore. For example—this is anecdotal evidence—someone with rheumatoid arthritis goes on a carnivore diet and gets to where they can stop using the really strong drugs that can depress their immune system.

On the other hand, I have a friend who feels awful whenever he eats meat—sore, painful, full of malaise. He only eats fish, dairy, eggs, and vegetables. Some people do great with raw foods; some people can’t digest raw at all. Some people do great with tons of vegetables. It just depends. 

What it comes down to, in terms of deciding on a diet, is what makes you feel good. My advice is, look at your daily energy level and the regularity of your gut motility, and if you’re not satisfied with those two areas, think about looking for some other diet. If you’re not especially in tune with how you feel energetically, if that’s something that’s difficult for you to assess—it can be tricky to assess, because we’re so focused on our minds, our egos—just look at how you feel overall. Do you feel basically good? If not, that’s a red flag. Are you plagued with colds, sinus issues, allergies? These are symptoms that can be borne in mind as you assess your diet.

The next step might be to do some reading and consulting. One of the best books is Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food by Catherine Shanahan, MD with Luke Shanahan (2016). Another good book is Your Stomach: What Is Really Making You Miserable and What to Do About It by Jonathan V. Wright, MD (2009).

There’s a fantastic program called Whole30 that’s great for changing relationships to food and figuring out which foods are best for you. It really works. Whole30.com. 

BF: Regarding nutrition counseling—the job titles are confusing. 

Dr. A: There are several pathways to expertise in nutrition.

Good nutrition counselors with a master’s degree in dietetics and integrative medicine are available. My husband Randy is a registered dietician with a master’s degree in dietetics and integrative medicine from the University of Kansas. 

A registered dietician can get a master’s in dietetics and integrative medicine. People who aren’t registered dieticians, who are healthcare professionals in the integrative health sciences, such as naturopaths, acupuncturists, chiropractors, etc., can get additional training in integrative and functional nutrition. People without a college degree can get certification from integrative/functional nutrition and health coach training programs. 

The University of Kansas offers an online Dietetics and Integrative Medicine Graduate Certificate, which is not a master’s degree but a certificate program for those who already hold a bachelor’s or master’s degree. 

BF: Please talk more about your diet. 

Dr. A: Most people are aghast at how much fat I eat. I eat one to two sticks of butter a day. I eat a lot of good fats for breakfast including well-sourced organic bacon, which is great for Omega 9 fats. Randy and I cook it very slowly so we don’t ruin the fats by oxidizing them. We put it in the frying pan at a very low heat. We don’t add anything to the pan, just the bacon, and we let it simmer for 20 minutes or more. We also use an air fryer sometimes and cook it at 270 degrees F. Sometimes I have a tiny protein bar with it. I try different bars, I don’t have a specific brand that I recommend.

We make bullet-proof coffee. I put a lot of grass-fed butter into my coffee and I add raw milk and cream. A2 raw milk is what I use, it’s a lot more anti-inflammatory than the A1 type. I don’t know if I can drink the A1 at all. I was dairy-free for 15, 20 years until I found A2 which I digest well. I add collagen powder, a little peppermint, and a bit of pure monkfruit.

BF: I will note, recipes for bullet-proof coffee are available online. It’s also known as keto coffee and butter coffee. And I want to say, collagen powder is a wonderful thing.

Dr. A: Absolutely. 

BF: There’s debate about coconut oil. The Mayo Clinic, which for some people is the gold standard of health, says the purported value of coconut oil is a “trick” being foisted on people. To my mind, use of conspiratorial language like “trick” calls into question a lot of Mayo Clinic messaging. 

Dr. A: I’m a big fan of coconut oil. Our main oils in our house are hexane-free coconut oil and grass-fed A2/A2 butter. A couple tablespoons of these a day are great. They help a lot of people with not having so much fatigue during the day. Unrefined coconut oil is the best way to go. In fact, unrefined fats, including tallow, are the way to go. Processing sometimes damages the fats and makes them not as healthy. Some people have trouble with coconut oil because it’s a medium-chain triglyceride, so it sometimes causes some irritation or bloating or diarrhea. You have to go slow and work your way up to tolerate it. 

We used to put a lot of coconut oil in our bullet-proof coffee. We kind of switched to more butter because butter seems to give me a little bit more energy. 

Not all healthy fats work well for everyone, you need to figure out what fats you tolerate and feel best on. People need to be careful if they have a familial genetic mutation where they cannot process saturated fats. It’s called familial hypercholesterolemia. It can result in heart attacks at a young age. It’s rare. There’s a list of symptoms at Medlineplus.gov.

My husband and I always try out every diet, every dietary change, that might work for our patients. We’re the role models and guinea pigs. What I’m eating now, I feel the healthiest, the most energetic. I need to keep adding as much fat as possible to sustain my energy through the day. If I don’t get enough fat and meat at every single meal I feel exhausted, my energy is not where it should be. My stomach feels really good with this diet.

For lunch I generally have batched homemade soups: butternut squash chili with beef or chicken vegetable soup. We add butter and/or coconut oil to the soups. Sometimes I’ll eat homemade gluten-free pizza, and on a rare day I’ll grab food from the cafeteria. And dried pears or applesauce from our farm. I tend not to get bored with this menu though people always wonder how I can eat soup most days. I just feel good afterward. 

Dinner is some kind of well-sourced meat, and sweet potato or organic potatoes, and a vegetable with lots of oil and butter. For dessert I like Randy’s homemade protein cookies made with einkorn, an ancient wheat flour. I’m gluten sensitive but I can tolerate einkorn in moderation. Ancient grains are great. They’ve not been manipulated by humans. Emmer is another one. Also spelt, rye, and regular oats rather than quick oats. Gluten-free oats are available.

Our evening meal is at about 5:30. First thing in the morning I’ll have bullet-proof coffee and then not eat breakfast until 6. So it’s about a 12-hour overnight fast for us. 

BF: I will insert your family’s recipes for Einkorn Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip Cookies: Mix 2 eggs, 10 tbsp grass-fed butter, 12 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp vanilla, 12 tbsp coconut sugar, 1 tsp monk fruit sweetener. Add: 1.5 cups einkorn flour, 1.5 cups gluten-free oats, 2/3 to 3/4 cup c¾olate chips, 1 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp baking soda, 2/3 tsp baking powder. Bake at 350 degrees for 8 to 10 minutes. 

Dr. A: Great cookies!

BF: What is your percentage of calories from fat at your daily meals?

Dr. A: It’s pretty high, about 60% at breakfast, 30% at lunch, 30% at dinner. The connection between a high fat diet and risk of cardiovascular disease has been mostly debunked. The key is good fats. People still don’t know that. 

BF: How do you know the amount of fat that’s best for you, and safe? 

Dr. A: Testing gives me a helpful structure. I also evaluate the signals my body sends me. If I didn’t get enough fat I would not have enough energy, or be super-hungry a lot, or be in a cranky mood. So, mindful eating. Body awareness. In terms of testing, I looked at my fatty acids, the composition of my red blood cell fatty acids, identified what I was missing, and started incorporating those types of fats, Omega 3’s, 6’s, and 9’s. 

Something that functional doctors find valuable is going beyond the regular serum cholesterol labs, where you look at total cholesterol, total LDL, total HDL, and triglycerides. We also look at the small particles, the very-low-density lipoproteins, VLDL, that actually cause cardiovascular risk. Also we look at markers of oxidative stress. These latter two tests are specialty labs that, as I say, a functional/integrative physician will generally order, but are not typically ordered by many mainstream doctors. If your level of low-density lipoprotein particles is high, but you have low oxidative stress, your risk of cardiovascular disease may be lower than someone with high low-density lipoprotein particles and high oxidative stress, depending on genetics, lifestyle, and past medical history. 

BF: Take us through a typical morning for you in your clinic, highlighting several patients. 

Dr. A: I start with a teenager who has headaches and shoulder pain that are becoming chronic, i.e., going on more than a few months. I do a lot of osteopathic manipulative treatments and add in an integrative plan, a holistic plan, diet/nutrition, any supplements they need such as magnesium, riboflavin, CoQ10 as migraine preventatives. I add an exercise plan that targets muscle and postural imbalances to help benefit their chronic pain. 

My next patient is a pregnant woman who is having a lot of trouble with low back pain and pelvic pain because of the pregnancy. She can’t do a lot of medication. I do a holistic approach. I do quite a bit of osteopathic manipulative therapy. I work with her on biomechanics with special reference to posture while sitting and sleeping. And then a mobility and exercise program for her. 

An adult male, older, comes in with shoulder pain and low back pain and I work on mobility with him, osteopathic manipulative treatments, also looking at everyday ergonomics, what they’re doing on a daily basis. I’ll evaluate any imaging, any labs. I’ll typically get him on an inflammatory plan which is pretty holistic in terms of looking at diet, exercise, and supplements. And follow-up with osteopathic treatment. 

Another person also has low back pain, she has tried a ton of procedures, including surgeries, and hasn’t gotten any better, she has significant degenerative disc disease in her lower back. I do acupuncture. I do quite a bit of acupuncture to help decrease the pain pathways that are really revved-up and inflamed. 

I spend an average of 20 to 30 minutes with each patient. I see patients half a day. The other half I teach medical students and residents at an osteopathic academic medical center. 

BF: Regarding pain. What is your view of treating it with prolotherapy?

Dr. A: Prolotherapy is excellent for healing soft tissue tears, such as tendons or ligaments, and uses relatively inexpensive therapeutics including dextrose, lidocaine, and saline. 

BF: Just to elaborate a bit, C. Everett Koop, MD, who served as US surgeon general in the 1980s, writes, “I have been a patient who has benefited from prolotherapy. Having been so remarkably relieved of my chronic disabling pain, I began to use it on some of my patients. The results I saw in those many patients were just as remarkable as was the relief I had received.” Wikipedia has an entry for it. Do you endorse craniosacral therapy for pain and other issues?

Dr. A: I highly recommend it. It allows the nervous system to relax. It’s good for many issues including concussions. Craniosacral therapy or osteopathic cranial manipulative medicine is a technique that we learn in the osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine specialty. This is an ACGME-accredited residency (Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education). My bias is that one of the best training programs in osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine is A.T. Still University, the original osteopathic medical school, in Kirksville, Missouri. 

BF: What do you think of myofascial release? 

Dr. A: It’s the bomb. It can address recent sources of pain and also really old sources, things from childhood, a concussion, a fall, a spanking. These things can affect people years later.

BF: “Years later”—this is so interesting and important. It seems to not be realized by a lot of people, or aggressively denied, amazingly to me. You’re saying, based on years of clinical experience and considerable study, that this is a real issue. 

Dr. A: Emotional junk, “small” traumas, can sit in our bodies. I have a podcast at my website with Rachel Pecora about her myofascial work. She worked on releasing the effects of a childhood accident that affected her long-term, physically and emotionally. 

BF: A good online article is “Fascia: The Most Neglected Part of Our Body is Finally Starting to Receive Attention” at TheConversation.com. Another approach to pain is offered by Howard Schubiner, MD in his book Unlearn Your Pain (2022 fourth edition). 

Dr. A: I recommend that book to my patients. 

BF: Once again I want to insert something here, a long-ish summary of Schubiner’s thinking.

He notes that chronic pain is pain that has existed for more than three months and is present most days or keeps recurring. It includes back pain, neck pain, joint pain, hand pain, widespread pain, headaches, and so on. It’s the main cause of disabilities globally. In the US, chronic pain affects 40 to 50 million people, he says. It seems to have increased with an increase in depression and anxiety. He says, “The traditional medical world is not very effective at treating chronic pain.”

He says chronic pain can be reversed, not just managed. He has the clinical track record to support his ideas. The basic strategy is to change one’s relationship to the symptoms, and to stress, using various tactics. His thesis: Unless you have a medical problem resulting in clear pathology in your body (which can be determined by routine medical tests), your pain can be cured…. You’re hurting because of overly sensitized neural circuits in the brain. These connections have created a vicious cycle of pain that can last for months, years, or even decades unless you do what it takes to stop it…. Our brains create the pain that we feel, whether that pain is caused by a serious injury or by stress. Most people and most doctors are not aware of this fact….Just as your brain has learned to make your body hurt, you can use your brain to unlearn the pain. There’s a way to retrain your brain….(My term for neural circuit disorder is) Mind Body Syndrome. Most people have some form of it.

Mind Body Syndrome is Schubiner’s label for what’s happening when pain, and also other issues including fatigue, anxiety, depression, insomnia, intestinal disorders such as diarrhea, urinary frequency, ringing in the ears, tingling, and numbness, are caused by the brain rather than a physical/structural condition in the body. His work is based on how the brain works according to the latest neurological research—it works by “predictive processing” also known as “predictive coding.” (See Wikipedia.) 

Schubiner says some people have pain because of physical/structural injury, some people because of stress and emotional injury, and sometimes it’s a combination of the two. He emphasizes that he’s not saying that physical pain caused by emotional injury is “in your head,” which seems to be the refrain of some doctors when they can’t figure something out. Pain is real, he says, it’s not imaginary, it has a biochemical and physiological basis. “Most chronic pain,” he says in an interview, “occurs because the brain is generating neural circuits that are causing real pain.” 

His website, UnlearnYourPain.com, has videos. Click on “Media” at the top. The site has a link to the website of the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association (PPDA), a non-profit organization of professionals working in the field of mind-body therapy. The PPDA site has a directory of practitioners. Virtual coaching is available. Another good website affiliated with Schubiner is FreedomFromChronicPain.com; this has a 12-month online therapeutic program for patients for a reasonable fee. 

Dr. A: The overall field is called pain reprocessing therapy. The published research is strong. Another great book is Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection by John E. Sarno, MD (1991). I use an app with my patients called Curable which can be found at CurableHealth.com.

The approach to pain we’re talking about, harnessing the power of the mind to heal, can be very helpful with all sorts of chronic health conditions, digestive issues and so on. Dr. Schubiner’s book and videos can be effectively used for all kinds of things. 

BF: If someone has chronic pain and is examining their options, in addition to the above resources, should they consider seeing an osteopathic physician with integrative medical experience? 

Dr. A: Yes. As Dr. Schubiner indicates, mainstream conventional medicine does not give chronic pain the attention it deserves. I don’t remember studying pain management at all in medical school. Osteopathic medical schools delve thoroughly into chronic pain. DOs get the equivalent of MD-level training in terms of biochemical knowledge and then go well beyond that, into the area of neuromuscular medicine, structure and function, and treatments. Osteopathic physicians are licensed in all 50 states but a lot of people are still not familiar with the concept. Osteopathic manipulative medicine is so great for so many things, pain, the immune system, sleep, blood flow, organ function, the lymphatic system. All of these things are connected of course. 

BF: Headache pain, including migraine prevention, is an area you’re known for. What are the best nutritional supplements for such prevention? 

Dr. A: Number one, magnesium. I usually recommend magnesium glycinate, magnesium l-threonate, or magnesium malate. Dosage will depend on which supplement you get; typically 500 mg of magnesium glycinate daily for adults is recommended from research studies. Also Vitamin B2, riboflavin, in very high doses of 400 mg daily for adults and 200 mg for younger school-age children, and CoQ10, ubiquinol, in doses of 200 mg daily.

Taking all three is effective to prevent migraines depending on the patient. They’re well-tolerated with minimal side effects. They have good evidence behind them. They take 8 to 12 weeks to change the physiology of the body to where headaches are less likely. This period of time is difficult for some people to accept but we’re talking about a big change. Patience is needed. Patience is a huge factor in so many aspects of healing.

The number one trigger for headaches is stress. This can kick in a couple days after a stressful event. Stress coping is key: emotional regulation, emotional intelligence, the mind-body connection we were talking about. 

Acupuncture is fantastic for headache and migraine pain. I’m a medical acupuncturist. Some physicians have acupuncture training; going to a licensed acupuncturist is just as good. 

BF: My understanding is that low-dose Naltrexone has helped many people with chronic pain and autoimmune issues. Thoughts?

Dr. A: There is some evidence for low-dose Naltrexone, LDN, for certain conditions including fibromyalgia, Crohn’s disease, and even multiple sclerosis. Now, this is not saying that LDN can completely treat these conditions, but it may help adjunctively. 

BF: What advice do you have for someone with an autoimmune disease such as arthritis?

Dr. A: The first thing I would say is listen to the podcast I did with Julie Michelson at my website. She’s a health coach who recovered from rheumatoid arthritis. It’s an hour long. There’s a transcript at the site. 

An aspect of arthritis is our own self basically fighting itself—self versus non-self—true self versus inauthentic self. Trying to impress others. When this conflict happens, vibrational energy occurs, sending signals to our cells that switch on an attack. So many times, my patients, when they’re sick, have an issue with being someone they’re not, trying to impress someone else, living up to someone else’s expectations, a disconnect between who they are and who they’re trying to be. This can create physical health issues. There is a mind-body-spirit connection. Until that connection is recognized and strengthened, healing from any chronic health issue is very difficult.

Therapists and coaches who are trauma-informed can help with this. Among the good trauma-informed therapies is EMDR, i.e., eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It’s very helpful for a lot of people. 

BF: “Trauma-Informed Care” is an entry at Wikipedia. You’re a big advocate of self-hypnosis for connecting the mind with the body, for encouraging the mind and spirit to relieve pain, help sleep, and regulate emotions. 

Dr. A: It’s such a powerful tool. There’s a great resource for learning it at ImaginAction.Stanford.edu, aimed at kids; I use it for adults, too. Health care professionals who want to learn how to teach hypnosis to kids should contact the National Pediatric Hypnosis Training Institute. 

BF: A book I benefited from is Self-Hypnosis: Creating Your Own Destiny by Henry Leo Bolduc (1985). Even young kids can learn self-hypnosis? 

Dr. A: Absolutely. If they can imagine, they can be taught self-hypnosis. It’s much easier to teach than meditation. Meditation is sort of “boring,” kids say. Self-hypnosis engages the imagination more, with a specific goal in mind. A few minutes of self-hypnosis, twice a day, every single day, shows positive benefits. 

For kids, let’s say they’re having test anxiety, or sleep issues, or headaches. With self-hypnosis, they relax, go in their minds to their favorite place—maybe Disneyland—and imagine what the feeling looks like, maybe it looks like red fire, or a smoky little area in their stomach. They can use their “magic hands” to pull this stuff out and put it into a rocket and shoot it off into the universe, and boom, it’s dissipated. Physiologically, they change for the better. Self-hypnosis engages their imaginations, their sense of fun, their capacity for creative visualization.

Most kids can learn self-hypnosis in three sessions; some need a little bit more. I tried teaching self-hypnosis in my clinic but that didn’t work so well. Teaching it in a doctor’s office for kids who don’t want to be there is not so good, they get uncomfortable, it’s too scary. Teaching on Zoom at home works well, they can relax in the comfort of their homes and get into it.

BF: You do remote work via Zoom with various patients, yes?

Dr. A: Yes. 

Regarding hypnosis and distraction techniques, I’ll just add they’re really helpful when kids are undergoing procedures such as blood draws and heel sticks. The kids are much less traumatized and there’s less damage to their nervous pathways. 

Another great tool for kids and for all ages is tapping. Kids love it! It’s quick, effective, and fun. It’s vibratory tapping of acupressure points to send calming signals to the brain and body. It decreases cortisol and shifts the autonomic nervous system. Back in the day, when I first heard about tapping, I thought it was some sort of made-up thing, but it’s legit! There’s regular tapping and there’s Emotional Freedom Technique tapping. They’re similar. The data is strong. There are many studies showing they help with pain, anxiety, depression, sleep issues. I know of an 85-year-old woman who uses EFT tapping for sleep and another person who uses it for sore throats. 

BF: You’ve spoken in interviews about the importance of emotional regulation for children. 

Dr. A: There’s good research about its value. One way to do this is by helping kids understand their feelings by naming their feelings—“name it to tame it” is the phrase that gets used a lot—name the emotion so it can be handled well. Younger kids can do this, even three and four years old, if it’s taught in a way that’s appropriate for them, if it’s fun for them, like naming an emotion in relation to an animal or a color. There are good articles online if you do a search for “name it to tame it for kids.” Lynn McLaughlin’s Power of Thought children’s book series is great. Among the titles are I Have Choices and Is What I’m Thinking True? Her book I Can Calm My Mind is good for sleep preparation. She has a website, LynnMcLaughlin.com. YouTube has videos including “Dan Siegel: Name It to Tame It” from the researcher who developed the idea. 

BF: It seems to me that emotional regulation for kids is a good example of how the world is getting better in some ways. Haltingly. I would have benefited so much from learning emotional regulation when I was 10.

Dr. A: It’s all a learning adventure in the health field. 

BF: Let me ask you for a few quick and basic tips on various topics. First up: breathing.

Dr. A: The way we breathe is important for the immune system, digestion, anxiety, sleep quality, and overall mood. I never knew how to breathe until I had serious pelvic pain. I spent six weeks learning diaphragmatic breathing, practicing it every evening for 5 or 10 minutes, and it really helped me.

BF: Dr. Andrew Weil has a good instructional CD titled “Breathing: The Master Key to Self-Healing,” and he’s on YouTube in a two-minute video, “Dr. Weil Explains How to Do His 4-7-8 Breathing Technique”: breath in through the nose to a count of four, hold for a count of seven, breath out through the mouth to a count of eight. Four cycles of this twice a day. 

Dr. A: I love the 4-7-8 technique!

BF: Next topic: Visualization.

Dr. A: Visualization can help with chronic pain. It can help the immune system work in a healthy way. It can change the body’s physiology for the better. It’s an aspect of psychoneuroimmunology. “Support Your Immune System With Guided Visualization” is a free program at DrJayWarren.com. Howard Schubiner’s site also has guided meditations. 

BF: Next topic: prayer.

Dr. A: It has changed my life, understanding the spiritual forces at work today and how much Lord Jesus did for us, awe-inspiring every time I dive deeper into biblical history. 

BF: Gratitude.

Dr. A: When you feel gratitude, feel-good chemicals spread through your body, and this helps healing on a cellular level. You’re going to start feeling better and you’re going to draw more and more gratitude into your life.

One thing that’s great is sprinkling positive emotions through the course of the day with simple moments of gratitude, “micromoments”: “I’m so glad I’m in a warm house.” “It’s raining outside, I’m glad I’m inside and dry.” “That smell of cooking is so great.” “The aromatherapy smells so good.” It’s OK to repeat statements. What you’re doing is balancing the positive and the negative emotions and thoughts. This takes intention during the day. The thing to shoot for is three positive thoughts for every one negative thought. The brain likes this. Barbara L. Fredrickson talks about this in her book “Positivity” (2009). As she notes, the science on this is very strong. All of that said, if the negative stuff gets overwhelming, sit with a professional and work through what’s going on. 

BF: Thyroid.

Dr. A: So important! Get tested! Get the test that’s a full thyroid panel.

BF: MCT oil.

Dr. A: I love it. MCT oil is a medium chain fatty acid. It has been studied in ketogenic diets. There are studies looking at its anti-aging benefits and prevention of neurodegenerative diseases. I have used it when I trialed ketogenic diets and some people report a benefit of more energy and focus. 

BF: DMSO.

Dr. A: It is a therapeutic for painful bladder syndrome/interstitial cystitis. I have had a few acquaintances tell me it healed their gut disorders and gluten sensitivity. I think people are reporting it helpful for pain, strokes, cardiovascular disease, as an antimicrobial, etc., but it’s not something I’m familiar with, I’d have to study it before commenting further. I haven’t had a chance to look into it beyond what it has been used for, interstitial cystitis, used as an intravesical solution. Several urogynecologists I know are using heparin/lidocaine bladder solutions for that instead. 

BF: Muscle testing.

Dr. A: Anecdotally it’s interesting but there’s not a lot of data for it yet. I don’t use it. I know some physicians do use it. Howard Schubiner and Andrew Weil are leery of it. 

BF: Highly sensitive people.

Dr. A: A lot of people struggle with this including so many kids. There’s a great book by Elaine N. Aron, The Highly Sensitive Person: How to Thrive When the World Overwhelms You (1996). A resource for highly sensitive families is AdrienneBishopCoaching.com. 

BF: Health coaches, life coaches. 

Dr. A: I love coaches! I think all people could benefit from a coach depending on their goals and challenges in life. It speeds up the transformation process. Another thing that’s good is creating a growth team, three to five people who really listen to you and challenge you. Maybe one of those persons is two or three steps ahead of you and can help you negotiate those steps. 

BF: How can good coaches be found? Is there a sanctioning group that stands out for you?

Dr. A: The Life Coach School may be one option. Bark.com is helpful as is the International Coaching Federation. There are coaches who specialize in habit formation, procrastination, and productivity. There are coaches with special training in nutrition and wellness. In weight loss. Finance. Relationships. And so on. Remote work is usually available. Many coaches offer a free discovery session. Ask yourself during this time, and during your first couple of meetings, are you really connecting? 

BF: Dr. Anna, please tell us about your personal health journey. 

Dr. A: From an early age, when I got sick, my family used herbs and different healing modalities. My mom would give me okra root to chew on when I had a sore throat. My dad would give me valerian for stomach aches. We always combined those with conventional care if I needed it.

When I was 14 I got really sick, I contracted a gut infection, e coli., by drinking apple juice that was contaminated. I think the apples had been affected by cow manure. This led to severe appendicitis which got missed when I was being diagnosed at the hospital. It developed into peritonitis. I had to have emergency surgery. I was hospitalized for several weeks. Down the road a few years, this health event solidified my interest in medicine.

In college I studied wildlife biology, but there were no jobs in that, so I got into the medical field, where there were lots of jobs. I did epidemiologic work at Children’s Hospital in Denver and I worked in New Mexico as a pediatric pulmonary research coordinator. I loved working with kids and loved the health and wellness field. I decided to apply to medical school. I got in to the University of Kansas School of Medicine in Kansas City, KU Med. 

When I started medical school, I got a whole bunch of immunizations, five or six of them all at once. After that, I barely could breathe, barely could walk. I was in bed 18 hours a day with severe fatigue. Nobody could figure it out. Finally, after multiple visits, the specialists said I had a severe autoimmune disease called polyglandular autoimmune syndrome where basically your antibodies start chewing up the endocrine glands. Most likely resulting from everything that had happened with my health. They put me on steroids, the main management tool for the syndrome. 

The steroids helped me not pass out all the time, they maintained my blood pressure and helped me with any stress or shock, but I still felt terrible. My immune system was shot. I felt sick and ill and out of breath and fatigued. I needed serious help or I wasn’t going to be able to make it through school. I refused to accept the fact that I was going to be on steroids for life. I just felt, “I am going to heal!”—I knew I could heal, I just had to figure out how. 

That’s what led me to Dr. Jeanne Drisko. She was director of the Integrative Medicine Clinic at the University of Kansas Medical Center. It was located in the basement of one of the buildings. She helped me with integrative modalities that allowed me, finally, to fully function as a human being. As a result of my work with her, I felt more energy, no malaise, no more night sweats and chills, I didn’t get infections as often. I felt alive! She was the one who brought me back to life. She helped me with nutritional changes, supplements, IV Vitamin C, IV Myers’ Cocktails. I did acupuncture. I did psychoanalysis. I did sauna therapy to detox. I started feeling good. 

Myers’ Cocktails are infusions of micronutrients. It’s an extraordinary healing modality. I’m sure they helped me. I still do them if I experience an autoimmune flare or an upper respiratory tract infection or any viral illness. I also do them as preventatives if I’ve been exposed to something. It gets electrons into my body and gets my mitochondria running a lot better. 

I got better over several months. It generally takes that long for any inflammatory condition to calm down in the body. I think what was going on with me was, there was a lot of gut inflammation, from the peritonitis when I was 14. Dr. Drisko helped me decrease my gut inflammation and clear out bad gut microbes. I had a lot of food sensitivities so we cleaned up my diet, improved my nutrition. 

One of the biggest things that helped me was, I asked Jesus for help. This was after 10 years of sickness. I just broke down and cried and asked for help, and within a week, a spiritual mentor and I started working on emotions, ancestral traumas, the spiritual path. For me today, I see spiritual healing as the foundation of healing. 

My work with Dr. Drisko led me into integrative and functional medicine. I realized its validity. For example, I saw that if you have a healed gut, and adequate supplements, you have a good foundation for health, and a lot of outside factors that might cause illness can’t penetrate the body as easily. 

After I got through medical school, I did a pediatrics residency and then did a one-year fellowship with Dr. Drisko in integrative medicine that led to board certification in integrative medicine. I saw a lot of chronic pain in kids and adults. I didn’t know what to do with pain so I went back to school and got board certified in medical acupuncture. This was an incredible modality to add.

I then worked in the pediatric integrative medical clinic at the University of Kansas Medical Center. I was then recruited to Children’s Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, a large regional academic medical center for pediatrics. I was hired to build a first-of-its-kind headache treatment center for kids where I did a lot of acupuncture treatment along with clinical hypnosis, aromatherapy, nutritional changes, supplements, and neuro-modulation devices. 

I wanted to bring osteopathic manipulative medicine, OMM, to my center because it’s so beneficial for headaches. I proposed incorporating OMM but the leadership elected not to proceed at that time. So I decided to get board-certified in osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine with an eye toward full competency in integrative pain management. I received that certification. I treat pediatric and adult headaches, pain, sports injuries, and more.

BF: Dr. Drisko strikes me as an extraordinary physician and scientist. 

Dr. A: Yes! She’s doing amazing research today with Dr. Qi Chen in IV Vitamin C as an adjunctive cancer therapy. 

BF: When you were on your healing journey with Dr. Drisko, were you surprised when you started feeling better? 

Dr. A: I trusted that it was going to work. 

BF: Was that confidence important to the healing process?

Dr. A: Definitely. I’ve always believed that we benefit from a biology of belief. One of the things that was essential to my recovery of health was working on belief, spiritual issues, and emotional pathways. 

BF: I’ll mention here one of the important books about the biology of belief, Head First: The Biology of Hope by Norman Cousins published in 1989. Cousins, one of America’s great magazine editors, was hit by a serious disease of the connective tissue possibly caused by exposure to toxins. He writes that he recovered with the help of optimistic belief, laughter, and Vitamin C: “At that time, of course, nothing was known about the ability of the brain to produce or activate secretions called endorphins that have painkilling capabilities….Nor was much known about the effects of moods, attitudes, and emotions on the immune system.” He made an interesting discovery: “A few minutes of solid belly laughter would give me an hour or more of pain-free sleep…. I realized that anxiety and depression were major enemies in overcoming or recovering from serious illness.” From those seeds sprouted a major program at UCLA in psychoneuroimmunology funded by Joan B. Kroc with leadership by Cousins. 

Were there any one or two things that helped you the most in those recovery months with Dr. Drisko?

Dr. A: The most important was the shift in diet to emphasize fighting inflammation. High healthy fat, more protein, and less processed carbs. No more sugary cereals. 

I was copper-deficient, zinc-deficient, Vitamin D-deficient, and had a lot of B vitamin deficiencies. I was low in Omega 3’s and in the anti-inflammatory Omega 6 known as GLA. 

One of the biggest health modalities I did was pray. I continue to learn how to pray and have a closer relationship to God. 

BF: Do you think it’s the case that some people simply don’t realize they’re not feeling as good as they could?

Dr. A: Yes. This is interesting. Sometimes people need to change their diet to realize they weren’t functioning optimally. They don’t recognize they had, say, brain fog, or low energy, until they start experimenting, maybe taking away sugary cereal in the morning and putting in something more wholesome and nutritious. They try that for a few weeks and start to notice less brain fog and more energy. They look back and see they lived with those issues for a long time. 

BF: I can’t believe you’re beating up so much on sugary cereal. This was the nutritional foundation of my boyhood.

Dr. A: (Laughs.) There are better alternatives that are just as appealing! 

BF: Do you see a certain number of patients who lack the motivation to heal? To live their best lives?

Dr. A: Yes I do. Sometimes people say they want to heal and say they’re willing to do whatever it takes to heal, but actually, it might be the case that there’s something blocking that from happening and making it not their time yet. Perhaps trauma in the past that they haven’t released, they haven’t dealt with, it’s been tucked away in the body in a way that manifests in disease. When trauma happens, sometimes our body kind of wraps around it as a protective mechanism and then it develops as disease.

If we’re working with someone with depression, or anxiety, or chronic disease, or chronic pain, connected to an emotional component, it’s tough to say, “You are going to have to do your exercise every day, and eat well, and go to therapy, and you’ll get better.” They might not be ready for that. They might have panic attacks incorporating some of the healing modalities. We have to respect where they are on their journey. If that person is not ready, that’s just part of their healing journey. It just means it’s not the right time yet.

BF: Change is hard, yes?

Dr. A: Change is hard! Growth is uncomfortable! 

BF: If people engage in changing their lives, they might benefit from recognizing that resistance will come up. The unconscious mind doesn’t like change, it likes things the way they are, it says, “Hey, we’ve gotten this far with old ways of thinking, why are you messing around here?” 

Dr. A: It helps a lot to listen to, and have a relationship with, God. Have that full faith that you’re going to heal according to God’s will, develop good habits, and stick to them. Good habits get you to your goals. Just a small amount of faith that you can truly heal from a complex health issue when all these health professionals have told you you’ll need to live with this for the rest of your life—this can be so helpful. This has been shown very clearly in the research. 

BF: What number, 1 to 10, would you assign to how the North American medical system, and media system, are doing today in terms of getting information on functional/integrative/alternative medicine out into the world, in terms of courses, websites, panel discussions, coverage? With one being terrible and 10 being fantastic. 

Dr. A: The system as a whole? Three to four. There are pockets, here and there, of medical organizations and centers that might be higher. Maybe a six. 

BF: A number of conventional mainstream doctors hate their careers, based on what they tell me and things I’ve read. There seems to be a fair amount of regret that they got into it. What is your view of your career? 

Dr. A: I love my career. One reason is, I have control over my decisions. Maybe other physicians feel they have to do things in a certain way so they’re getting burnt out. More and more doctors in conventional medicine are interested in integrative techniques when it comes to treating chronic health issues, and re-charging their careers. Still, overall, it’s pretty messy out there. A lot of burn-out. Another issue is that physicians have to work within a healthcare system that is not working well. 

BF: We talked about the book Integrative and Functional Medical Nutrition Therapy: Principles and Practices, one thousand pages with careful thinking on every page. I suspect one reason for the reluctance of mainstream conventional medicine to embrace integrative medicine is, they look at that textbook and think, “I don’t want to study all that! I already spent half my life studying!” 

Dr. A: In my opinion, practicing integrative medicine is way more difficult than conventional mainstream medicine. It’s so hard to educate not only ourselves as practitioners about new science but also patients about self-care and lifestyle choices. Most doctors are unwilling to give time to studying new stuff and educating people. They’re so busy doing all this administrative work in a system that’s crazily regulated and basically broken.

BF: Do you think the overall system will deeply change? The money end of it? The reluctance of insurance companies to pay for integrative therapies? The focus of most mainstream conventional medicine on drugs? 

Dr. A: I don’t know if it will change. (Pause.) I’m kind of pessimistic. But—I know I’m here for a reason, I know God has me on this path for a reason, and I’m just going to trust that things will change. Maybe not in my lifetime.

BF: Are doctors doing enough to fight back? 

Dr. A: Well, as I say, unfortunately for us physicians, we are forced to be cogwheels in a system that keeps us so busy that we’re not able to actively fight to change the system. We don’t have power in the system. Insurance companies, industry, and large medical corporations have the power. 

BF: What would you do if you were the czar of medical school education in the US and had carte blanche to make changes?

Dr. A: The whole thing needs to be revamped. 

I would steer the system away from students just learning pharmacologic/pharmaceutical-based medicine. I would orient them toward learning integrative modalities, osteopathy, mind-body-spirit.

I think the course work should have more practical guidance. It’s fine to get basic knowledge of anatomy, microbiology, biochemistry, and physiology, but doctors really don’t use all that much of those in practice. It would be better to incorporate the basic knowledge into the nuts-and-bolts of the complexities of healing, how healing happens, what patients need in the clinic. There’s not enough clinical experience in the first two years of medical school—it’s mostly studying the material with some standardized patient experiences in-between.

Students learn material that’s outdated. They don’t get enough of the recent evidence of different therapeutic modalities. They’re really learning for their board exams, not to become critical-thinking physicians. The accrediting bodies need to be able to adapt more quickly to changes in knowledge and to innovations. 

BF: What advice would you give to new medical students?

Dr. A: Break topics down into bite-sized bits. Dive into biochemistry for one intensive hour and then pathology for an hour and then pharmacology for an hour. As opposed to going for hours and hours on one topic.

Really take care of your health. Eat well. Don’t rely on junk food. 

I’ll mention several ideas I got from Mary Rensel, MD, a brilliant neurologist. Her website is BrainFresh.org. These ideas would apply to really anyone. If you’re embarking on a new project or tackling a big task, do “brain priming.” The brain is very busy, obviously, and it needs to be supported if you ask it to do something new. Brain priming includes good nutrition. The brain is metabolically very demanding, so eating less from boxes and bags is helpful, more whole foods, and plenty of healthy fats. Adequate sleep—some of us have a self-imposed sleep deprivation and this can really affect focus, recall, attention to detail, decision-making. Adequate exercise—movement affects blood flow to the brain. Moving at least a little bit every 30 minutes is good, even just a stretch or running in place. 

What happens with a lot of people is they do the opposite. When they embark on something they get so busy they neglect the basics. This reduces their productivity. The challenged brain needs more healthy lifestyle actions. Hanging out with people who prioritize well-being is very beneficial. They can serve as models. We can take on some of their positivity. The brain is attuned to this kind of connection. If you do something good for yourself, be sure to reward yourself. 

BF: I have a conspiracy question for you.

Dr. A: Uh-oh. (Laughter.)

BF: I will preface it by saying I don’t buy into many conspiracies. I think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, I’m convinced by Vincent Bugliosi’s books. 

One of the basic questions of the present day is whether bad things come forth from organized conspiracies or from more natural forces in society. I incline toward the latter but I sometimes wonder if there’s a conspiracy, perhaps conscious, perhaps unconscious, on the part of big corporations to not be hugely interested in encouraging people to just simply feel better. I’m not saying CEOs gather around a campfire in Bohemian Grove and say, “Let’s keep the people down.” But they’re not unduly bothered by the fact that people are kind of…down. They’re OK with the fact that people learn at a young age to buy products that offer temporary surcease including certain kinds of food. This is the “Sick people are easier to control” thesis and “Depressed people will buy distractions.” 

If people were to suddenly have more physical and emotional energy, they wouldn’t be quite as docile, right? They’re not going to be as accepting of the status quo. This would threaten the livelihoods, investment portfolios, and quarterly earnings reports of Big Pharma, Big Tech, Big Media, Coca-Cola, Frito-Lay, Anheuser-Busch, the NFL, the Cheez-It Bowl, pension funds, endowment funds, on and on. Your thoughts on this topic?

Dr. A: I think when there’s money and power involved, certain leaders and organizations can create a narrative, hide the truth, and cover up problems that could cause a dent in their financial gain.

What is interesting is that some physicians don’t know about the corruption that goes on behind the scenes and continue to prescribe medications or therapies from those companies. Some physicians get their updates from media companies that are receiving money from pharmaceutical or other medical industries for advertising. This creates an environment where the media can issue a narrative that promotes the industry from which they’re getting money. Physicians need to have time to review original sources like peer-reviewed publications to discern the truth.

I used to be a coordinator for pharmaceutical clinical trials. One day, one of the research supervisors received a phone call from a pharmaceutical company involved in a clinical trial. We had found, via statistical analysis, that their medication was no better than another medication. They suggested we could change our analysis in a certain way, and they’d pay us more for that. My team didn’t take the money but I remember the researcher saying “This happens all the time.” 

So what happens when there are statistical methods that can be changed to show a benefit that may actually not be clinically real? Well, that’s manipulation of data, which could mean that the pharmaceutical company can justify the marketing of that drug and sell more and make more money. 

***

BF: When we set up this interview I asked you to put together a list of maybe 10 books you love. Are you ready?

Dr. A: Ready! In no particular order: 

The Companion Bible by E.W. Bullinger (1910).

The Roots of the Federal Reserve by Laura Sanger (2020).

Generation Hoodwinked by Laura Sanger (2024).

Fervent by Priscilla Shirer (2015). 

Hormone Intelligence by Aviva Romm, MD (2021). 

The Unseen Realm by Michael S. Heiser (2025 expanded edition).

The Salt Fix by James DiNicolantonio (2017). 

Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart From an Accidental Farm Girl by Jennifer Dukes Lee (2021). 

The Crossroads of Should and Must: Find and Follow Your Passion by Elle Luna (2015). 

The Invitation by Oriah Mountain Dreamer (1999). 

BF: At your website, where you interview health practitioners, they almost always describe their personal health journeys. Many of them have overcome big challenges, as you have. These stories are a tremendous source of inspiration. It seems to me that inspirational podcasts are one of the most powerful healing tools to emerge in recent years. Basically not commented-upon by the mainstream media. 

Dr. A: I love doing those podcasts! Inspiration really matters. 

BF: Dr. Anna, I think you, and people like you, are changing the world. You and your peers, people under 40, are a new generation coming into the field of functional/integrative/holistic/alternative medicine, building upon the great work done by the pioneers, taking the discipline a step farther. You’re taking full advantage of new technologies, the Internet, apps, YouTube, social media, podcasts, webinars, Zoom, Clarityflow software. You’re expanding the depth and breadth of new professions like health coaching. You’re connecting with new thinking about psychological counseling such as EMDR. This is one of the biggest stories in health care right now, radically under-reported by mainstream media—young professionals investigating holistic therapies and modalities with an open mind, seeing they work, and committing to learning more about them and developing them. And helping people actually heal. 

So—good luck! And thanks for your time. 

Dr. A: Thank you! You too!